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Bob
Does it say there will be animals in heaven???>?
Bob,
Yes, God promises they will be.
Isaiah 11:6
“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.”
Isaiah 11:7
“And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.”
Isaiah 11:8
“And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.”
GB
Hi Jordan.
I believe the scene you mentioned in Isaiah 11 happens right here on Earth in the future Millennium.
Look how the chapter starts.
"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Isaiah 11:1-4.
As we read on you see earth is clearly mentioned.
8) "And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 ) They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the "EARTH" shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Blessings.
Ronald Whittemore
Amen brother, I know many love there pets but Scriptures are clear. I am glad you and your wife are well.
God bless,
RLW
Thanks Brother Ronald.
My wife she's much better and thanks again for the prayers!
God bless you Brother.
Maybe soon we can discuss the gap theory I mentioned a while back.
I'm off to Church.
Blessings.
Thanks brother S Spencer. That should be an interesting discussion.
God bless,
RLW
Hi Ronald here's what I found in my studies in the Gap Theory.
I do lean towards this theory but I'm not dogmatic because there's more questions than answers as I will mention as I proceed.
Gap Theory Part 1.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. I believe this includes the heavenly hosts. (Angels including Satan ) That's important, at some point the Angels shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth.
2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Note;
I don't fit the dinosaurs and fossils into this period, I believe they were created during the six day creation.
It's interesting that while going through the 6 days of creation there's no mention of the planet earth. The earth is mentioned in verse 1 but when the creation began from Genesis 3 on we see the sun and the moon being created but there's no mention of the earth.
Verse 2 says the earth was without
form and void
(tohu wa-bohu) everywhere else in scripture tohu wa-bohu suggests a cause and effect. "It became that way! Isaiah 34:11 Jeremiah 4:23-27 and other places in scripture. Some suggests that the word "and" in Genesis 1:2 is an active verb and the passage should be read "but the earth BECAME without form and void.
The word became is treated in the same construction as Genesis 19:26 when Lots wife became a pillar of salt.
The Septuagint translate it
"But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished, and darkness was over the deep, and the Spirit of God moved over the water. The Latin Vulgate and Aramaic Bible is similar.
The Hebrew says more literally that there was darkness al-pnei “over the face” of Deep. (Not over "The Deep".
The critical word here is tehom ‘Deep’. Many Bible translations say “the deep,” as we might in English when describing the vast ocean that covers most of our planet, and tehom is related to words we know from older Semitic languages meaning “water” or “the ocean.” But this is not ha-tehom ‘the’ deep, as “the sky” was ha-shamayim and “the earth” was ha-aretz. It has no definite article. It’s a proper noun, a name.
darkness over Deep [tehom],” it hints to Genesis 1:2 is the result of a battle or Judgement of some sort.
Brother Ronald I will post part 2 later during the week.
God bless.
Thanks S Spencer, do not know how many parts, but await and will reply. I have done studies on Genesis 1 and 2 and I may post those.. what is amazing we only have 6 chapters that cover 1656 years, or if you go with the Septuagint it is 2056 years. Be safe in your travels.
God bless,
RLW
You're welcome Brother Ronald.
It should be only 2 parts.
I will be presenting part 2 at my earliest convenience.
Thanks and God bless.
Hey, brother Ronald,
There's more I could have shared on Genesis 1:1-2 passages like Isaiah 45:18 and passages in Job. However I wanted to rush through this section to go on to the Fall of Lucifer and let the dialog begin.
This is the main section of scripture that causes me to explore the Gap Theory and take a second look at Genesis 1:1-2. "I'm sure you know that. Lol.
This is also a section that lies underneath difficult questions.
Part 2.
The fall of Lucifer.
Isaiah 14:12-17.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
We no that Isaiah is addressing the prince and the king of Babylon but at this point of the passage he goes far beyond the earthly reference and adress the power behind the king of Babylon. "Lucifer"
Ezekiel does the same thing in Ezekiel 28.
Ezekiel gives a prophecy on the prince of Tyrus.
Ezekiel 28:2 Ezekiel talks about the prince of Tyrus and then he suddenly talks about the "King of Tyrus"
As a side note:
The prince of Tyrus was killed by a sword but the king of Tyrus shall be killed by fire.
There's two that Ezekiel is talking about in this passage. The Prince of Tyrus was a literal Prince that fulfilled that prophecy.
But Ezekiel goes beyond that and goes to the power behind the prince of Tyrus! He calls him the "king of Tyrus".
Verse 11-) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
This is Lucifer again!
(Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God?) When was this?
When we read about Satan in Genesis he has already fallen. He's a serpent.
THOU ART THE ANOINTED CHERUB THAT COVERETH; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
When did the passages in Isaiah and Ezekiel happen?
Much confusion comes from very bad translations that have Gen 1:1 as “ In the beginning God created the heavenS and the earth “ while boasting in their ‘better understanding’ show or prove very little of it .
And is a warning to one and all about thinking that knowing the Hebrew automatically gives you the understanding of scripture .
It does not.
The Hebrew word used in ‘heaven’ can be either plural or singular depending on context . Subjecting the Scriptures to man’s intellect rather than the other way round always leads into error .
The context is in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth .
You might argue seen and unseen ,spiritual and carnal .
But whatever way you might look at it ,it was not that heaven that “ was without form etc and darkness was upon the face of the deep .
For that heaven needed no sun or moon for God is the light thereof . Gen 1:2
It was the EARTH that was without form and void and was in darkness . It is worth noting that that ‘earth’ is bigger than what many suppose for everything that follows from Gen 1:2 is speaking about the earth including “the stars also “ Thus it was not heaven that needed light but the earth .
And it was not God that was in darkness but Man . For “ God is light and in Him there is no darkness nor shadow of turning “
Is it not written “ They that sat in darkness have seen a great light”?
For it is man that needs the Light of heaven .
Thus Gen 1:2 is not the Creation of the earth that happened in Gen 1:1 but what follows after Gen 1:2 is the recreation of the earth . For God always brings light before He starts to work .
Is it not written “ That God commanded the light to shine into our own hearts”?
Did He not bring the Light of Gods Word before He started His work in us?
In Jeremiah almost the exact words are used in Gen 1:2 when God speaks of a judgement .
Our Salvation which the church has reduced to being BORN again and is but the ‘S’ of it goes further back than we suppose and is much greater than many think and more radical than can dream of .
To be BORN again is to get out of the bondage of Egypt and the dominion of Pharaoh. By the Word of God , the blood of a lamb and by the power of God .
To pass through the wilderness is it can be argued ‘boot camp’ . Where former slaves a rabble without form become a disciplined organised “ terrible as an army with banners coming out of the wilderness leaning upon her beloved” .
The wilderness is where the people of God learn “ that man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God” .
Where the church learns to walk with God . Not in front not behind but with God in the midst .
A force to be reckoned with . Not building a kingdom on this earth ,or a ministry of our own but as ambassadors of the Kingdom of Light and every true church an embassy of God .
But having reduced our Salvation to just being BORN again .
We may have lots of “ little children”. But very few “ young men in whom the Word of God dwelleth richly and you have overcome the wicked one”
And how many have we of “ ye fathers you know Him who is from the beginning”?
Given so many who don’t believe the Creators account of the beginning how can any therefore “ know Him”?
Are we not called to be the light of the world ? Which is in darkness and “ gross darkness the people “ .
The moon has no light of its own but in its position and relationship with the sun and the earth even in the darkest night it bares witness to the Truth that not only is the sun still shining but there is coming a perfect day .
Bad news for those “ who love darkness more than the light “.
Good news for all and any who wants something radically better than what this sin soaked corrupt world is offering them .
And of course good news fir any and all who have come to live the light and been transformed by it.
But again going back to Genesis is it not written God created “the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night” ?
While men build their own kingdoms they do not rule over the night .
For you cannot exercise authority unless you are subject to it .
So as the Son was made conformable to the Father so the church ; we are to be made conformable to The Son ,
“Whom the Father has given to be head over all things to the church “
While not willing to be contentious for contentions sake . I have to object to the introduction of opinions and the use of ‘many translations’ .
For those many translations are full of errors ,in translation ,additions and omissions .
Why should I or any put their ‘weight’ on such and feeble limbs?
Or trust they will lead any to the truth?
For does it not introduce man’s opinions set against another’s? In an endless debate about what this man thinks or that one .
You might argue ever man is entitled to his own thoughts ,perhaps but once expressed becomes an opinion but even there it would be absurd to assert every opinion is of equal weight .
In this world a man’s opinions can have little or no consequence . But in the things of God it is not I or anybody else that needs an opinion but the Truth!
For if we get this wrong there are eternal consequences for doing so .
Now has it not been promised that “ When the Holy Spirit shall come ,He will lead us into all truth”?
Has He not come? Or stopped leading men into all truth?
Why then is there so much uncertainty and doubt? Promoted or confessed .
“For when you know the truth the truth shall make you free”
One has to conclude then so many are not so led by Him but of men and his opinions . Or men have so subjected the scriptures to their own wisdom and so full of their own wisdom the Holy Spirit is outside the church knocking on the door ?
“ Let him who has ears to hear ,open the door………..”
Such confusion etc simply opens the door to even more error for Rome is already setting herself as an ‘authority’ which many are leaning towards .
Romes errors are too many to mention proven by word and deed .
She has since added to them and counts herself infallible in them.
Even if a man spoke the truth that does not make him infallible but simply a witness of it .
And even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day .
Thanks Gerald for that response.
By the way, I used other translations to see how a particular "word" is being used, I don't build a theology off those transactions.
It's a method of word study.
I'm not sure where you are going with the rest of what you are saying.
Thanks and God bless.
Hello S Spencer,
Good points…and I agree, this could very well take place on this earth in the millennium.
It could also take place again on the New Earth that God tells us He will make at some point in the future.
Isaiah 65:17
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
2 Peter 3:13
“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
Revelation 21:1
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
So God has told us how these animals will behave in the future, whether during the Millennium as you suggest, and or, on the New Earth that he makes for us in the future. We can be sure that God has a great plan for us, as well for all of the animals!
God Bless
Hi Jordan.
Welcome to the site and thanks for responding.
In my eschatology viewpoint I believe the passages here in Isaiah 11 describes the economy in the Millennium reign of Christ here on earth BEFORE the new earth and heaven mentioned in Revelation 21:1-2.
The passages in Isaiah 11 gives us a glimpse of what goes on in Revelation 20:1-3.
Whether there's animals insects ect.. in the new earth and Heaven mentioned in Revelation 21 I don't know, however I lean towards there is not any.
God bless.
It mentions animals but in the verses you quoted it does not mention in heaven that is that Heaven in Gen 1:1 where Gods throne is .
The new “ heaven and earth “ are those heavens of gen 1:2
If God preserved the animals in the ark of Noah for a ‘new’ earth it is not a strange thing he will preserve them in a new earth .
No it does not say anywhere that animals r in heaven now , or will b in the future . It does seem that animals will b in God's Kingdom on Earth during the millennial reign of Christ on Earth though . The final verse of the final Psalm implies this , as do several verses in Isaiah .
Also , if we believe that the New Temple described in Ezekiel , is a physical temple in God's Kingdom , there will b animal sacrifices then and there , this is mentioned in Ezekiel Ch 43 and in others in the later part of the book of Ezekiel .
That temple made with hands was destroyed for good reason as prophesied by the Lord .
Yes there will be another temple built but that does not mean it is of God.
For there is no need of sacrifice to be made . Jesus was that one and all sufficient sacrifice fir sin and we now enter by the grace of God that Holy place once barred because of sin .
Any animal sacrifices made would be an abomination even as it became so in the Old Testament .
To be perfectly frank ,I have not a clue .
But this is certain . The animal sacrifices first laid down in the garden of Eden did not nor could not restore man to his former relationship with God . For if it had why the need of the promise? Which foretold of Him born of a woman but not if Adams seed who would bruise the head of the serpent and it would bruise His heel “.
There are enough scriptures showing also that God got sick and tired of all those animal sacrifices and eventually rejected them .
The letter to the Hebrews teaches much on the matter also.
The idea that God would then initiate and command another round of animal sacrifices after He gave His only begotten Son as the “ Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world “ is inconceivable .
But here is chapter 40. I cannot deny the above nor will therefore the reason this is there is yet to be understood for it is a great contradiction on the face of it .
But it does not make me reject The Way the Truth or the life in favour of again making animal sacrifices .
Nor can it apply only to the Jews for Paul again both in Romans and Hebrews argues effectively why both Jew and gentile sold under sin , needed Christ and the righteousness that comes by faith in Gods good work on Calvary .
So again , my answer to you is I don’t know but there are a lot of things in scripture I do not understand especially in Ezekiel and revelation and some of Daniel .
It is not either or .
But the why and the wherefore fir me is yet to come and no doubt will sooner or later .
I very much appreciate your honesty , not many people r happy to say ' I don't know ' well done to u for that , it makes a nice change . I have my own idea about the temple in Ezekiel , but I can't share it at the moment . Hope to get back to u soon . Have a good day brother .
Amen Gerald!
We do know by way of scripture there will be no temple in the New Jerusalem.
Revelation 21:22 'And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Also there will be no more death, tears, deception or rebellion like will go on in the Millennium including deception when the Devil is released.
I believe the temple described in Ezekiel is the Millennium temple and just like the Ot temple pointed towards the cross, I believe the Millennium temple pointed back. SALVATION IS SETTLED BY WAY OF THE CROSS!
Both eras pasr and future reflects a Jewish economy and promises to Abraham and David with the throne of of David continuing on through the Millennium.
Afterwards a New Heaven, a New earth, the New Jerusalem and the Bride is ushered in.
Revelation 21:1-5.
There will be a temple rebuilt in Jerusalem but it will be before the millennium reign of Christ on earth .
For is it not written that the anti christ who having made a “ covenant of death” with Isreal seats himself in that temple thus declaring he is God . The Jews will suddenly realise their mistake and reject him he then turns on them .
It is when they are about to lose all that they cry unto the Lord and He will answer “ and they shall see Him who they had pierced” and mourn .
He will save that remnant in a day as one’s “risen from the dead “.
And the anti christ will be vanquished and then the millennium reign will start .
Yes Gerald, I'm aware of the desolation of the temple by the Antichrist but this temple isn't described in that way at all. Your talking about in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel. "the Great tribulation".
Let's pick up at Ezekiel 39:25-29 and see the difference.
"Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
"And now we go on into Ch 40 where we see the measurements of the temple.
Also,
Ezekiel 43:1-12 reads, "Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER, AND MY HOLY NAME, SHALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL NO MORE DEFILE, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.